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CubeOwner
post Jun 11 2013, 06:34 PM
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The last we heard of the Power Mac G4 Cube—a computer everyone loved, but no one could quite figure out—was in a press release from 2001. Twelve years later, we've finally met its beautiful, brilliant, and not altogether sane successor...


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Gizmodo: The Brilliant Insanity Behind the New Mac Pro's Design

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Pablo
post Jun 11 2013, 09:26 PM
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The new design the the Mac Pro is elegant in the way it solves cooling issues we faced in upgrading our Cubes. By forming the main heatsink as a triangular extrusion, the Pro eliminates the problem of the hot video card bay in the Cube. The Pro flips the video card(s) over to use the third side of the main heatsink for cooling the gpus. The two cpu cards occupy the other two sides, it appears, and a large fan at the top pulls air evenly through the chassis. I’m thinking the canister shape is necessary for this cooling design to work, because air passes over the cards in channels defined by the case as well as through the main heatsink. Certainly the polished, black aluminum canister is attractive, but a transparent canister could also be attractive. From the specifications, it sounds like the Pro will be very expensive, but I am thinking that the basic design would work as well for a less expensive, consumer version.


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sgsorensen
post Jun 11 2013, 09:43 PM
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I sold my Cube a few years ago, but I will be one of the first to slap my credit card down and buy one of these bad puppies!!!!!
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CubeIt
post Jun 11 2013, 10:48 PM
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I think they learned a lot from the Cube, and did not get carried away by form over function

* Having a separate power brick is messy; the Cube's was also badly cooled for safety reasons.

* A central chimney for cooling is a good idea

* They avoided the error of having the video card separate and so not well cooled.

* They put a fan in this time, a thing the Cube was probably always meant to have

I wonder if they relieved internal stresses on the triangular core and then machine it flat to avoid a warped contact surface

Most video cards have components sticking above the level of the GPU, so I wonder how they interfaced the cards with the central heat-sink; probably like the Cube with an intermediate block.

Did they pick the wrong market? Why would a server farm care for looks?

The all-in-one concept will be ruined by the need to hang stuff off it; I think it is a thing of great beauty, but for the very same reason (added cost) it may suffer the same fate as the Cube; then again, it does not make the error of having the costly demands of a transparent case.

I'd like one, but I can't see myself ever getting or even needing one.

This post has been edited by CubeIt: Jun 11 2013, 11:09 PM
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AtmChm
post Jun 12 2013, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE(CubeIt @ Jun 11 2013, 10:48 PM) *

The all-in-one concept will be ruined by the need to hang stuff off it; I think it is a thing of great beauty, but for the very same reason (added cost) it may suffer the same fate as the Cube; then again, it does not make the error of having the costly demands of a transparent case.

I'd like one, but I can't see myself ever getting or even needing one.

Yeah, this is one of my concerns also. There is no room at all for internal expansion, not even including space for a Time Machine drive, or other drive options. So, they've left it all for Thunderbolt add ons, which will indeed be unsatisfactory for the form-conscious. For a few months I used my MacBook Air as my office computer, but I needed so many wires connecting to it, that it was a mess on the desk. Of course, that was before Thunderbolt, but you'll still have wires, just replace usb wires with Thunderbolt cables.

I'm also worried about price on this. It would likely serve my needs for the application I have in mind, but I'm not willing to pay more than the current base Mac Pro price to get one of these, so I'll likely be ordering one of the last "silver aluminum" mac pros this fall.

In terms of comparison with the Cube, I still say the Cube was/is way more upgradeable than this thing will be. I guess I'd like one for its beauty, elegance, and speed, but I don't see it as likely worth the $$ they'll charge for it. I mean, I'm presuming that all you will be able to upgrade is memory and the SSD?

This post has been edited by AtmChm: Jun 12 2013, 01:44 PM


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jbarley
post Jun 12 2013, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE(AtmChm @ Jun 12 2013, 11:39 AM) *
I'm presuming that all you will be able to upgrade is memory and the SSD?

Only if or when some 3rd party offers up a PCIe SSD upgrade for this Mac, the available SATA SSD's won't cut it.

This post has been edited by jbarley: Jun 12 2013, 03:16 PM


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AtmChm
post Jun 12 2013, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE(jbarley @ Jun 12 2013, 03:15 PM) *

Only if or when some 3rd party offers up a PCIe SSD upgrade for this Mac, the available SATA SSD's won't cut it.

Just curious, but isn't this the same technology for current Mac Pros?

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/PCIe/OW..._Accelsior/RAID


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Pablo
post Jun 13 2013, 10:55 AM
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Another thing I noticed was that Apple said a new Mac Pro would last ten years. It is that advanced. Does this signal a possible change in Apple's policy, to continue support for a product throughout its practical lifespan? If so, that would be a departure from the norm. Some people invest an enormous amount of money, in the software and peripherals surrounding their expensive computers, only to find support has been ended after four years. If four years could be stretched to ten years for the new Mac Pro, that could signal Apple is hearing the concerns of its original devotees. I don't think that would be unreasonable, and I'm not thinking about every little part, but at least the latest software would be expected to be backwards compatible.


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Cube: Newer Technology Maxpower Dual 1.6 gHz 7447A with Pablo heatplate and Pablo VRM bypass wiring harness, 1.5 GB PC 133 Cl 2, ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition ADC/DVI, Powerlogix Powercube (clear) with VRM relocation kit, Spirica cube VRM heatsink, 120 GB Crucial M500 SSD with Pablo pSled, LG GS31F SATA Super Multi-Drive with Addonics adapter, Giga Designs base fan, Airport card, Airport Express 802.11n as an ethernet bridge, Harman Kardon USB Soundsticks, Dual Apple 23" M8536 Cinema HD displays with Dr Bott DVIator, Elgato EyeTV 500, Apple iSight with Sightflex mount, Original Belkin powered Firewire Hub, Apple Pro keyboard and mouse, OSX Leopard 10.5.8.

Early 2011 MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 with who knows what's inside and Lion.

Powermac MDD 2003, dual 1.25 cpu, 2 gB PC2700, Apple Superdrive, Radeon 9000.
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CubeIt
post Jun 13 2013, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE(Pablo @ Jun 13 2013, 09:55 AM) *

Another thing I noticed was that Apple said a new Mac Pro would last ten years.


All my computers (PC and Macs) are about 10 years old, so maybe 10 years is the new norm already.

Some 10 year old PCs can run the latest version of Windows, so in this sense having the hardware and software made by separate companies is in the consumers interest. It is NOT in Apple's interest to keep the old hardware running; it is Apple's job to make money, to not do so would not be in the interest of the shareholders.

Anyhow, Intel may be coming up with chips that consume just a few watts, and one would miss out on that. Recall that a car consumes more $$ in gas in its lifetime than it cost initially, and the worlds computers consume more energy than air travel, so a long lasting computer that keeps one away from low power alternatives may actually be the more expensive route. At 12 cents per KWhr a 100W computer running 24/7 consumes more than $100 of electricity a year; that really adds up over 10 years.

There is also another problem, a $1,000 saved on a computer and invested for 10 years at say 12% becomes more than $3,000; so spending an extra $1,000 to have a computer that lasts 10 years may not be the best use for that $1,000

The figures used may not be realistic; electricity prices are probably going to rise, and it is hard to make 12% in investments these days, but the idea is there.

After having spent most of yesterday stripping down, cleaning and rebuilding the seals on an old toilet; I am now questioning the virtues of keeping old stuff running, especially when the price of a new toilet is around $200

What I think is really happening is that Apple need to justify the high cost of the new MacPro

This post has been edited by CubeIt: Jun 13 2013, 12:46 PM
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Pablo
post Jun 13 2013, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE(CubeIt @ Jun 13 2013, 09:00 AM) *

It is NOT in Apple's interest to keep the old hardware running; it is Apple's job to make money, to not do so would not be in the interest of the shareholders.
I am now questioning the virtues of keeping old stuff running,

But, but, I thought you were the keep old stuff running guy! Apple makes money when it expands its market share. People care about resale value, and fewer people are likely to invest in high-end equipment that depreciates in four years because of support abandonment. On the other hand, this may not so much apply to phones, where getting the next new thing excites buyers, and where people would be replacing their phones anyway because of wear and tear.



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Cube: Newer Technology Maxpower Dual 1.6 gHz 7447A with Pablo heatplate and Pablo VRM bypass wiring harness, 1.5 GB PC 133 Cl 2, ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition ADC/DVI, Powerlogix Powercube (clear) with VRM relocation kit, Spirica cube VRM heatsink, 120 GB Crucial M500 SSD with Pablo pSled, LG GS31F SATA Super Multi-Drive with Addonics adapter, Giga Designs base fan, Airport card, Airport Express 802.11n as an ethernet bridge, Harman Kardon USB Soundsticks, Dual Apple 23" M8536 Cinema HD displays with Dr Bott DVIator, Elgato EyeTV 500, Apple iSight with Sightflex mount, Original Belkin powered Firewire Hub, Apple Pro keyboard and mouse, OSX Leopard 10.5.8.

Early 2011 MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 with who knows what's inside and Lion.

Powermac MDD 2003, dual 1.25 cpu, 2 gB PC2700, Apple Superdrive, Radeon 9000.
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CubeIt
post Jun 13 2013, 03:43 PM
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Ah yes, you caught me, I can certainly see the contradiction; it is people like myself who are holding back progress by hanging onto the old.

Let us be honest with ourselves, we would get the new MacPro not because we need it, as an iMac probably does all most of us need.

Apple makes money when it sells machines, it does not need to increase the market share to make money; in fact one can increase the market share by dropping price, but it is profit that counts, not revenue.

This post has been edited by CubeIt: Jun 13 2013, 05:24 PM
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AtmChm
post Jun 13 2013, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE(CubeIt @ Jun 13 2013, 03:43 PM) *

Apple makes money when it sells machines, it does not need to increase the market share to make money; in fact one can increase the market share by dropping price, but it is profit that counts, not revenue.

But selling macs is becoming a very small portion of Apple's sales, and Mac Pro sales must be very small indeed.


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Pablo
post Jun 15 2013, 10:08 AM
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QUOTE(CubeIt @ Jun 13 2013, 01:43 PM) *

Let us be honest with ourselves, we would get the new MacPro not because we need it, as an iMac probably does all most of us need.

I have heard that OSX 10.9 contains high resolution wallpapers that will support 27" retina displays. Assuming this type of display will be made by other companies, as well as Apple, the focus turns to the redesign of the Mac Mini. That's inevitable now, because the Mini design will look very out-of-date beside the new Mac Pro. If Apple carries forward the new Pro's 'hang components on the central extruded heatsink' engineering, I think a cube shape Mini successor could provide the room for an optical drive and maybe more.



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Pablo

Cube: Newer Technology Maxpower Dual 1.6 gHz 7447A with Pablo heatplate and Pablo VRM bypass wiring harness, 1.5 GB PC 133 Cl 2, ATI Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition ADC/DVI, Powerlogix Powercube (clear) with VRM relocation kit, Spirica cube VRM heatsink, 120 GB Crucial M500 SSD with Pablo pSled, LG GS31F SATA Super Multi-Drive with Addonics adapter, Giga Designs base fan, Airport card, Airport Express 802.11n as an ethernet bridge, Harman Kardon USB Soundsticks, Dual Apple 23" M8536 Cinema HD displays with Dr Bott DVIator, Elgato EyeTV 500, Apple iSight with Sightflex mount, Original Belkin powered Firewire Hub, Apple Pro keyboard and mouse, OSX Leopard 10.5.8.

Early 2011 MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 with who knows what's inside and Lion.

Powermac MDD 2003, dual 1.25 cpu, 2 gB PC2700, Apple Superdrive, Radeon 9000.
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CubeIt
post Jun 15 2013, 10:38 AM
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For better or for worse, Apple seems to be phasing out the optical drive; the new iMac really didn't need to be so slim, nor glued together.

Now a version of the 'MacPro Can' without the error correcting memory and the such would be wonderful if it were not glued together.

This post has been edited by CubeIt: Jun 15 2013, 10:42 AM
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Neodym
post Jun 19 2013, 04:21 AM
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QUOTE(CubeIt @ Jun 11 2013, 10:48 PM) *
I think they learned a lot from the Cube, and did not get carried away by form over function
They learned, but the new Mac Pro in my eyes still is definitely form over function.

QUOTE(CubeIt @ Jun 11 2013, 10:48 PM) *
Did they pick the wrong market? Why would a server farm care for looks?
A server farm would probably care about form factor (which is directly related to looks) - and the new Mac Pro is anything but suitable for being mounted in server racks by the hundreds!

However maybe the sneak peek did not reveal the whole story and there will be more variety (e.g. prosumer-grade components leading to a lower entry price or a tube-style sheath for rack-mounting).

QUOTE(CubeIt @ Jun 11 2013, 10:48 PM) *
The all-in-one concept will be ruined by the need to hang stuff off it; I think it is a thing of great beauty
Exactly this is the reason i think it's still form over function. The new Mac Pro is intended to be a new signature machine for Apple. Either the provided hardware delivers sufficient performance for your needs or you tuck your expansion box(es) away under your desk, only having the core sitting prominently above.

QUOTE(AtmChm @ Jun 12 2013, 01:39 PM) *
There is no room at all for internal expansion[...] they've left it all for Thunderbolt add ons, which will indeed be unsatisfactory for the form-conscious.
Perhaps someone will eventually offer a big expansion box for everything that does not fit into the Mac Tube. Or Apple will release a Thunderbolt PRO display (with a couple of legacy interfaces, 2.5" bays and a PCIe slot) and integrating 2-6 Thunderbolt cables into one to reduce clutter. Problem is - that would not be able to be anorectic...

QUOTE(Pablo @ Jun 13 2013, 10:55 AM) *
Another thing I noticed was that Apple said a new Mac Pro would last ten years. It is that advanced. Does this signal a possible change in Apple's policy, to continue support for a product throughout its practical lifespan?
I seriously doubt that the Mac Tube is really that advanced. Especially not in the professional market, where you usually try to stay closer to the bleeding edge technology-wise and replace hardware shortly after it's written off.

Perhaps they meant that the concept and/or design are advanced, so this new Mac Pro will be available in that form for ten years (with updated innards every now and then). They have royally pi**ed off their professional user base over the last years and so i guess they are now trying to gain back some trust and credibility.

This post has been edited by Neodym: Jul 8 2013, 04:37 AM
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